Answers to Herb Evans

Answers to the False Accusations by Herb Evans

By Mike Miller

It grieves me to have to go down to this level. I think it is a disgrace for Christians to be quarreling like this. It is not something that I carry on and on with. However, I feel we must answer the many falsehoods, misrepresentations and outright lies that were put out by this man. Doug Sehorne published them to hundreds of preachers on an email list and then refused to let us have any way to give an answer. Please read to the bottom to see how far out in left field this fellow gets.

The numbered items are things he said or are about something he said.. My comments or answers follow.

1. Date of meeting referred to is wrong. It was 11/4/02 – 11/8/02, not 4/8/02 as stated by Herb Evans.

2. Within the first 4 sentences he puts "new light" in quotation marks 3 times. No one claimed at this meeting we have any new light, nor has anyone at this meeting ever claimed such a thing.

This is an attempt to deceive the reader.

3. He says we used "Mingled Seed" insinuating that we used different versions of the Bible –

Another attempt at deceit.

4. "Clearly, this was a "We are right, and you are all wrong!" type meeting"

He obviously didn’t listen very closely because Bro. Owen explicitly said it was NOT that type of meeting, both before the meeting in the flyers that were sent out, and also during the first message he preached at the meeting. More deceit.

5. He says this is a "new spin" on the Atonement.

Obviously he doesn’t read, and never has read, anything other than the Sword of the Lord, or Southern Baptist theology books. This is NOT a NEW doctrine and we have plenty of documentation to prove it. Deceitful words.

6. He tries to make the reader believe that we have some connection with Joey Faust and his teaching of purgatory.

What a stretch!

7. He says we preached a "living without committing sin scheme."

Again, it is obvious that he did not listen to the tapes, or he doesn’t understand English, OR he is just a plain liar and deceiver. Everyone at the meeting took pains to say that we were not teaching sinless perfection, or that a person can live without ever sinning.

Sehorne was also deceitful in posting the heading on his website as "Atonement / Sin Nature / Sinless Perfection / Romans 7 answered..." He has been told repeatedly that we do not believe that, so he is also trying to deceive people about what we believe.

8. He says we branded all who didn’t believe like us as "false professors" or "easy believers."

Where did anyone say, or insinuate such a thing on those tapes?

9. He misrepresented what I said about reading an article that changed my thinking about this.

I said I read something that provoked me to think and then I got my Bible and started reading. More deceitful words, designed to make the reader think that I was converted by some man to this way of thinking.

10. Herb Evans also misrepresents what I said about the Atonement and quotes a string of verses that I also quoted during the preaching. Herb Evans is trying to deceive the reader into believing that I don’t know those verses exist, or that I ignore them.

11. He rightly accuses me of saying that God does not need to be appeased and then says simply, "Our Bible's presentation of the propitiation and sacrifice says otherwise."

Oh yeah, WHERE?

12. Talk about NEW LIGHT, and NEW DOCTRINES – Herb Evans says "Christ is our purgatory." ?????

Where’d you get that one?

13. He quotes 4 verses to prove that God considers sin to be a debt and two of those are completely out of the context of sin altogether. (Rom. 4:3 and Gal.5:3) The other two verses are from the parables of Jesus and are teaching about forgiveness and DO NOT PROVE THAT SIN IS A DEBT! As Herb Evans said, "HELLO!!!"

14. Herb Evans says, "Sin, according to Miller, is not a debt but a crime."

Sorry Mr. Evans, but it is not according to Miller, but to God. Maybe you never read this: 1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

15. ABSOLUTE LIE! "Miller does not believe that Christ died for our sins nor paid for our sins."

Listen to the tapes before you puke up such lies.

16. Herb Evans says about himself, "We have proved that something must be paid for and also be forgiven."

Sorry, you have proven no such thing. You have proven with your own words that you preach confusion. If someone robbed you or hurt one of your family you would not call them a debtor and demand a payment. You would want them punished because they are a criminal. You don’t understand the first thing about sin.

17. "They confuse repentance (which is a change of mind about sin, self, and God) with turning from sin."

DOUG SEHORNE? JOHNNY JONES? WHERE ARE YOU? This guy doesn’t believe that repentance is turning from sin! Is that what you believe, too? Say it loud and clear for us, now.

18, "Much of their Atone-atics is murky …"

I reckon it is when you don’t half listen to the tapes. I think any honest person who was at the meeting, or listened to the messages would not agree with that.

19. Herb Evans says, "We suspect that they do not even believe that Christ took their place in His substitutionary atonement."

Your suspicions are wrong, sir. There you go again trying to deceive people with statements of opinion without any facts to back it.

20. "They do make the disclaimer that they do not teach that they never sin--only that they do not commit' sin (whatever difference that makes).

Again, you weren’t listening. That was explained very carefully and in detail.

21. BIG LIE: "Yet they yield to the watered down perverted modern translations."

Not ONE verse was referred to or quoted from some other translation.

22. "They do not tell us how many times you have to sin in order to PRACTICE SIN."

That’s a hard one, sir, but I’m pretty sure you are doing a good job of it here.

23. Herb Evans says, "The truth is that believers do sin, do "practice" sin, and they also do engage in sinful lifestyles."

HERB EVANS, YOU ARE EXACTLY THE KIND OF BIRD WE ARE SHOOTING AT. The Bible teaches no such thing, and neither has any great man of God through the ages. YOU ARE THE ONE PREACHING THE NEW DOCTRINE. Go ahead and cry about the mess in the churches, then go look in the mirror because this is exactly the kind of teaching that has produced this wicked and adulterous generation. And keep ducking, ‘cause we’re gonna keep shootin’. HEY DOUG SEHORNE AND JOHNNY JONES! DO YOU BELIEVE THIS ALSO?

24. Herb says, "One thing for sure is that they have a very low esteem of what sin really is, …"

How audacious to say that right after what you just said in #23! Thou blind Pharisee!

25. "Nevertheless, all we need now is for the Atone-atics to explain how much sin is practicing sin and what sins constitute living a sinful lifestyle and how much sin keeps you from overcoming."

NO, what I think we need, Herb Evans, is for you too explain to us how you think that a Christian can be an overcomer and live a sinful lifestyle at the same time? Say it real plain now, so everyone will understand exactly what you believe.

26. "The constant mantra of "being freed from sin," "delivered from sin," and having one's sins taken away permeates Atone-atic preaching."

THANK YOU, SIR! I consider that a compliment. If you will read the New Testament you’ll find it "permeated" the preaching of Jesus and all the Apostles, also. I think the book of Romans says a thing or two about that, also.

27. "One passage tells us that you do not sin if you know the Lord and abide in Him. Who is that? Your new nature? The divine nature? Your soul? Your body? Your flesh? The new creature? The new man? The old man? Let's go a step farther. Do you ever sin? What does the sinning? Your new nature? The divine nature? Your body? Your flesh? The new creature? The new man? The old man?"

IS YOUR NAME HERB EVANS or LEGION? Here’s some news for you: Herb Evans will give account for Herb Evans to God. God is not going to judge you separately for all these divisions you imagine yourself to be. Have you been talking to a psychiatrist or something?

28. Herb Evans says, "Still, death, the sin nature, and sin are all inherited. It is genetic just like insanity and physical defects."

PURE BOLOGNA! If you believe that, then don’t you say a word against the sodomites when they claim that their sin is genetic. You believe just like they do. The Bible teaches no such thing. However, the Catholics and Calvinists and all their offspring do. As I said earlier, you obviously don’t understand the first thing about sin. Sin is a moral problem – not a physical problem. If it is physical then man will one day find a cure of his own for it. If it is physical, then there has to be a chemical or an herb somewhere that will cure it. No, Herb Evans, nothing but the Blood will wash away our sins.

29. "The comeback, of course, is that sin did not pass to every man, only death did."

Sorry, but that is what the BIBLE says: Romans 5:12 12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

30. Herb Evans asks, "Then why do men sin?"

We answered that one in the meeting, also. If you had listened to the tapes you wouldn’t ask such a question. You could have read your Bible and found the answer, too. James 1:14 through James 1:16 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16Do not err, my beloved brethren. Psst! He’s talking to people like you!

31. "Moreover, why do babies die, since Steve believes that babies do not sin or go astray?"

Very simple: "death passed upon all men." – Rom. 5:12

32. BIG LIE: "This group seems to believe that we have some sort of pre-sin, Adamic nature."

Purely made-up out of thin air. No such thing was said or insinuated by anyone at this meeting or any other time.

33. "Steve Cogdan offers a lame excuse from Ezekiel to prove that the son does not bear the iniquity of the father."

Pretty rough way to talk about God’s Word. You’re handling it awfully lightly.

Ezekiel 18:20 20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

34. "Nevertheless, the Bible is clear that Adam's disobedience made mankind SINNERS without any sin of their own."

What a preposterous statement! Not a verse to back it up! If this is literally true, then God is not a just God because He is charging people with crimes they did not commit, and the whole house falls down. Thank GOD! I know better than that!

35. "Babies die because of Adam's sin and their own sin."

Tell that to the folks at a baby’s funeral and see how many believe you. Show me one verse that teaches such a thing! And if babies die because of their own sin then they must go to hell, as the Catholics say. Show me a verse in the Bible that backs up the Baptist fairy tale about "not saved, but safe." Babies are safe because they are not sinners …yet.

36. "The Atone-atics' claim is that you do not have to sin after you are saved, because you do not have a sin nature."

I guess Herb Evans claim is that Christians DO HAVE TO SIN, and sinners HAVE TO SIN, also. To put it in his own words, that "conclusion is breathtaking."

37. Bob Boan does his best to make us Gnostics for our views.

He did a very good job at it, too. In spite of your squirming and throwing accusations of Bible correcting at Bro. Bob, he showed you the 4 places in the NT where that word is used. It is a different word that the one used in Romans 1 and elsewhere. It DOES MEAN LOW ESTATE.

38. "Mike Miller does not like to believe that our old man sins, for he claims that our old man is dead to sin."

Hello! Anybody home in there? Mike Miller believes the Bible and not some doctrinal book.

Romans 6:2 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6 through Romans 6:8 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Galatians 2:19 through Galatians 2:20 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

39. "This group does not believe in CARNAL Christians."

Am I to assume you do? I dare you to get your dictionary back out and look that word up. Then come back and tell us about those "Carnal Christians."

40. LIE: "Still, these fellows seem to teach more of a "reformed" creature than a "new" creature."

No one of us, no where, said any such thing, at this meeting or any other time but quite the opposite.

41. Herb Evans says, "To be sure we are to count the old man to be dead but he is not gone."

Funny how Calvinists believe the old man was dead before he got saved – so dead he couldn’t come to Christ, but after Salvation he is too alive to be kept under control by the Holy Ghost of God. Like I said, ….funny isn’t it?

42. "Steve explains away the delight of the Romans 7 man in the law of God as being that of an unsaved man, contending that lost people are quite capable of that. However, lost people are dead--dead in trespasses and sins."

Please refer to #40. Again, it is very curious to see how these confused people think. Too dead to delight in the law of God, but too alive to be controlled by the Spirit of God after Salvation. What do you think?

43. LIE: "Mike Miller admits that in 26 years of salvation, he finally came to the truth of the real gospel about a decade ago."

I admitted no such a thing. I did admit growing in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, which we are instructed to do in the Bible. I do admit that I understand MUCH more about what Jesus done for me than I did the day I got saved. If Herb Evans can’t say the same thing he is obviously not in obedience to the plain commands of God in the NT.

44. Now, I resent this "I was saved under that Gospel but now it is different from what I first believed, and now, we have a problem in Christianity, since I figured it all out."

To put it in your own words, that is a "straw man." No one said anything like that. It is a figment of your wild imagination. Come back down to reality.

45. "Mike Miller, the best we can figure, is the main author and ringleader of this doctrine from the repeated disclaimers from most of these speakers at the meeting that they did not embrace it at first but gradually were convinced BY Miller and their own study. Since that time, these men have been supplementing Miller's doctrine with new corollaries."

Of all the foolish statements you made, this one takes the cake. You have made an utter fool of yourself before everyone that knows me, Bro. Owen, and the rest of these men. This statement shows just how far off base and void of discernment you are. You can thank Doug Sehorne for helping you to make such a fool of yourself.

46. "Right now, they are in the embryo stages of their heresy."

You missed it again, and you have totally misjudged the whole situation.